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Reporting Fans For Writing Stories - Morgan Dawn Livejournal:The Here And Now
The Here And Now
morgandawn
morgandawn
Reporting Fans For Writing Stories
I had never heard of thepornish_pixies   until last week. But after reading some of the fan fic, how many of you would have reported the community or some/any of the writers after reading their fic. Be honest (aka feel free to leave an anonymous comment. I'll try to turn have turned off IP logging). And for those brave souls, here is a poll.

PS. I do know that few would be brave enough to fill in the "Yes" poll box. But please log your vote/thoughts anonymously by leaving a comment  - I have turned off the IP logging).

PPS. And to make this even more complicated - also feel free to do what I just did. Vote No/Yes and then drop a comment below with a hypothetical story/real life situation that would push you to report someone.

So Step One - head over topornish_pixies , see what you can see and then fill out the poll "is there anything there that would push you to report a writer for TOS"
Step Two (because life is never that simple) drop a comment here with a specific hypothetical example of what push you over the edge. No "it would have to be a story where someone is threatening someone else." Give us specifics - because in a discussion like this only specifics will work. I mean You might think a RPF/RPS story where Jared kidnaps Jensen and then forces him to watch Anne of green Gables endless times until he agrees to have wild gay sex = threat of real life harm to others, but others may not.

Poll #995161 Would You Report The Writers On Pornish Pixies

Would You Report Any Of The Writers On Pornish Pixies?

Yes
0(0.0%)
No
59(100.0%)

Tags:

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Comments
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ckll From: ckll Date: June 1st, 2007 07:04 am (UTC) (Link)
You mean, being a kind of 'traitor' and report what they are doing? lol
morgandawn From: morgandawn Date: June 1st, 2007 07:18 am (UTC) (Link)
no, not if they comment here anonymously. This is why I truend off IP logging - I don't want to know who, just whether.

A few people have spoken to me privately and said: you know. I was disturbed by some of that fic. I am not certain I wouldn't have reported them if I had not been too lazy/too busy/too timid.

So this is really just a gauge - is there anyone reading my LJ who thinks that reporting fan fiction - even gross icky sick underage threesomes with unicorns and squirrels - is acceptable. And when? Why?

My dividing line: it might be be if someone wrote: this is a fan fic story about Sam and Dean kidnapping and raping a 9 yr old girl while being possessed The girl is based on my 9yr old daughter/sister/niece.
From: (Anonymous) Date: June 1st, 2007 07:13 am (UTC) (Link)
One or two, yes.
morgandawn From: morgandawn Date: June 1st, 2007 07:19 am (UTC) (Link)
thanks for responding. can you give a hypothetical example of what would push your buttons (I gave one for myself above).
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Re: Discussion = Good - (Anonymous) - Expand
destina From: destina Date: June 1st, 2007 07:28 am (UTC) (Link)
If a thing is worth saying, it's worth putting my name to, so - my answer is a qualified and non-anonymous no. Probably the only circumstance under which I'd report someone under TOS for writing any type of fan fiction is if I thought their posts exhibited danger signs of someone winding up to harm him or herself, or someone else, IRL, and the example you gave above might fit.
morgandawn From: morgandawn Date: June 1st, 2007 07:32 am (UTC) (Link)
you know I never did consider the harm to self ....I think that would be much harder (for me) to spot- and again it would require more personal knowledge of the person and their situation (ex a friend who had tried 2x to kill herself writing a detailed story about how she was going into the UC Berkeley hills to try again and then was very evasive about what it meant/woulnd't discuss it).

unperfectwolf From: unperfectwolf Date: June 1st, 2007 07:39 am (UTC) (Link)
No, never, at all, ever. Never. If they are posting fiction, never. And pornish_pixies is a moderated, invite-only forum where in we know that all of it is only fiction so - no. Even if it is something I detest, no. Why? Because it is fiction and I do not ever want to be the reason someone posts their work.

After all underage and incest are huge squicks, and I write both, together even!
unperfectwolf From: unperfectwolf Date: June 1st, 2007 07:40 am (UTC) (Link)
*someone can not post their work

Obviously I fail at rereading my comments today!
klia From: klia Date: June 1st, 2007 07:41 am (UTC) (Link)
Harm to self or others, possibly, but honest to god, how would you know? Evaluating someone based on their LJ user info/online persona? Good luck with that. I'm assuming more and more that people aren't sharing their real info. I think I'd have to *know* know them, and if that were the case, I think reporting them to LJ would be the last thing on my mind.
rozallin From: rozallin Date: June 1st, 2007 08:43 am (UTC) (Link)
When we were in the grip of the last LiveJournal scandal, Nipplegate, someone pointed out that if you searched for any sexual word you would find scores of sexually explicit default icons, so I searched for the term 'blowjobs' and came across a ring of journals owned by people who had a sexual interest in young children. Their default icons featured naked children, aged no older than eight, engaged in sexual acts. The journal entries detailed what they liked to do with children. I reported this to Abuse and within 24 hours the journals had disappeared and I was informed that one person was arrested.

pornish_pixies pales in comparison.

I think this incident has highlighted that LJ/Six Apart's procedures and policies with regards to illegal content/TOS violations are sorely lacking.


deathofone From: deathofone Date: June 13th, 2007 05:30 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm too tired to read through all of the comments, so I'm just jumping onto this one. :-P

I completely agree with that, Rozallin. I would have reported that as well, as I think most people (I hope) would. Fiction/slash stories are one thing, but discussing things they actually want to do to children, let alone posting pictures -- that shouldn't be on LiveJournal.

I don't want to see LJ become some uptight, clamped down community over swearing, sex, drugs, and whatever else -- but there's a line, especially when it crosses actual illegalities like pedophilia, and they need to work on refining and enforcing those rules.

But I don't see anything wrong with pornish_pixies. It's fiction. No matter what is in it, whether it's something I want to read or not -- I don't care. Fiction.
solo From: solo Date: June 1st, 2007 09:08 am (UTC) (Link)
I feel almost boring for saying no, but there you are. The only place I'd like to report some is to the style police.

I really can't think of a case when somebody's fiction would make me report them. As for the example you mention: yes, it would be disturbing, and I'd probably tell the poster in person that they ought to seek professional help (maybe not in such polite terms). But I still wouldn't see it as my task to report them; a fantasy, no matter how disgusting, is not an act.
From: (Anonymous) Date: June 1st, 2007 09:28 am (UTC) (Link)
Never. Speaking as someone who enjoys the...very questionable areas which HP fanfic has wandered into at times, I wouldn't report anyone. Y'know - the whole ficion argument. And you get to recognising names, and you can go to their LJs and see that they are actually not that weird.

On the other hand, I can totally understand how an outsider to fandom, and particularly that area, with no experience of fic...could see non-con underage fics which are written to titillate. They'd have to ignore plenty of warnings, and the disclaimers...But if it was that fic which has a drugged young!Draco being passed around by his father and then raped by him? Which clearly and evocatively describes his appearance and exressions? I can see how people might be really disturbed.

For the record, I like that fic. But I wouldn't have if I hadn't read a lot of other stuff. Fandom has kind of deadened my sensibilities in that area, which is tragic.
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meri_oddities From: meri_oddities Date: June 1st, 2007 09:56 am (UTC) (Link)
I agree with destina. If I'm going to say something it's going to be me saying it.

I would never report anyone on pornish_pixes. Ever. I have read some of the stories there. And yes, I find some of those stories pretty disturbing, but I can't impose my tastes on someone else. They are about about fictional characters. No one is harmed. I don't feel I have a right to censor anyone's right to free speech or expression.

cjk1701 From: cjk1701 Date: June 1st, 2007 10:04 am (UTC) (Link)
I'm a random passerby over friendsfriends - I wouldn't report any kind of fanfiction, no matter how disturbing, if I saw it was only fanfiction. Fiction being the imperative word. I don't read chan, RPF or (W)incest because it's not my thing at all, but I still wouldn't want to forbid anyone to write it or get somebody in trouble for doing so. People who write chan are not pedophiles, nor do incest writers sleep with their siblings - or even advocate or condone doing so.
From: (Anonymous) Date: June 1st, 2007 10:32 am (UTC) (Link)
I'd have to say no I wouldn't report any. However, I think the problem is I'm very familiar with fandom so that's bound to influence how I'd respond to something like this. I can understand people who have no clue about fandom, coming in and reading this stuff, and being completely freaked out. At the same time though, that's why all fanfiction is supposed to have a label making sure people know that it's not real.

Here's the thing, my answer is also influenced by the fact that I do love Sam/Dean and I even read John/Dean and seeing as not even everyone within fandom agree on how they feel about these pairings, I can see them as even more shocking to those outside of fandom. I'd hate for them to be reported just because people outside of fandom somehow get the mistaken belief that we're talking about real incest here.

I admit that I also read rapefic and I'll even read underage either with Sam/Dean together or else Dean/OMC (I'm very much a slasher). Though I do set a limit to how young I can stand it. Although at the same time, there are two or three stories out there that showed Dean being kidnapped and sexually abused at a young age that I thought handled the subject well. But I think that's the most important thing with those kinds of fics. I know when I was into the Harry Potter fandom there were fics out there with Harry between ages 11-12 (and sometimes younger even) where he was shown to enjoy the sexual attention from Snape or whoever. Those are the kind that I can't personally read because I don't like thinking about those stories being about getting off on a kid that young. Whereas the stories I mentioned about a young Dean were to show how it was a BAD thing that he was victimized in that way at that young of an age. I think that's the difference for me and why I can handle it in that way but not the other. Plus when it comes to underage, if the kid is like 15/16 or older, I'm okay with it. But anything between an adult and child where the child is 13 and younger and it's shown as a good thing, I run the other way.

I don't see myself having any room to judge other people's fanfic even if it's not all my style. Some of the stuff at pornish_pixies has squicked me out but I imagine not as many as others might object to. Then again, those same people that like what I don't may be squicked at what I like.

Now here's where it gets controversial and I'm not even sure of how I can even understand it myself. The example given by you above about a possessed Sam and Dean raping a child is something I couldn't handle. For some reason, I can handle possessed Sam raping Dean in a fic but I can't handle him raping someone else, especially a child. I have no idea why. But at the same time, I wouldn't turn someone in for writing it, I just wouldn't personally be able to get into it. Now the controversial part, I'd be creeped out if I knew it was based on a real child (especially if I knew him/her) but at the same time there are some AU RPS fics that I've read that had Jared or Jensen as the abused child and I could handle those. It's not because I don't think of them as real people because I definitely do. The only thing I can think of to explain that is I know they are in their 20s now and I know that it's highly unlikely that they really were vicitimized in that way when they were kids so I can look at it as completely fictional even though it's based on real men. Whereas if it involved a child I knew to be out there, especially one I knew personally, then I feel like I would wonder if the person writing it is fantasizing and posing a real potential threat to a child who still is a child right now. I don't know if that makes sense because I've honestly never really thought about it in this way before.

I guess my conclusion regardless is that I wouldn't turn in any of the fic even if I personally feel disturbed by it unless I had an extremely strong reason to believe that the writer poses a real threat to someone.
mecurtin From: mecurtin Date: June 1st, 2007 11:05 am (UTC) (Link)
I guess my conclusion regardless is that I wouldn't turn in any of the fic even if I personally feel disturbed by it unless I had an extremely strong reason to believe that the writer poses a real threat to someone.

Exactly. Or, to put it another way, I would never report *fic*. It's when there are signs outside the fic (including in author's notes) that point to the fic not being fictional in some way.
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phantomas From: phantomas Date: June 1st, 2007 10:38 am (UTC) (Link)
I haven't yet looked at the comm in question...

I've stumbled before on stories that were - if not based on real events - scarily hinting at it. It wasn't fanfiction, it was just fiction, a dubious site collecting stories of the same tone and style. I logged in a complaint with their server.

I do read heavily graphic stories, the difference between fanfiction and fantasies close to RL is usually quite evident. Like you, I need something more than my personal dislike, something factual, or as close as.

That said, I'll go have a look at the comm and come back to fill your poll.
morgandawn From: morgandawn Date: June 1st, 2007 03:42 pm (UTC) (Link)
Because pornish pixies is moderated/filtered, there may not be anything that you'd find reportable. But feel free to wander back here and give a specific hypothetical example of a kind of story that would push you to report.

I have a new one to add: I am very new to RPF/RPS - but a story where someone is talking about kidnapping/raping Jensen/Jared and using real life events to set the stage? perhaps?? (this would be a case by case one where I'd need to know more about the scenario and the person).

cathexys From: cathexys Date: June 1st, 2007 12:32 pm (UTC) (Link)
Like you, I actually don't think the "it's just fiction" defense is as simple or the line as clear as it's often made out to be. And I'm quite conscious of my own adult status when reading stories involving underage characters (though I'm also quite clear of the fictional character of the story and the characters portrayed!).

That being said, I think there's a fairly clear context issue which counts to me in ways similar to the academic "veneer," i.e., I'm well aware of the fact that the community producing (and mostly reading) these stories has not, does not, and will never engage in such manners with actual children!

The kids harmed in these stories are purely fictional, and if the readers'/writers' getting off on it (and that presupposes that they *are* getting off on it, which is also not necessarily the case), then it is a fantasy in which these kids are not only fictional but also often metaphorical (i.e., I think that some power fantasies get played out with the child as exemplary for powerlessness, etc)

So, seeing these stories without context, I'm not sure how I'd feel, but I'm still not sure that policing someone's fantasies would be the right way to go. I've never quite decided even for myself if fantasies train behavior, replace it, are independent of it, or a mix of the above. B/c if we prosecute fantasies, I'll be up for spousal murder several times over :)
From: (Anonymous) Date: June 1st, 2007 01:19 pm (UTC) (Link)
No. I have written some damned eyebrow-raising things myself and I would no more do them than I would douse myself with kerosene and set myself on fire. Fiction allows catharsis that usually has nothing to do with reality.

If one can't express one's darker side or explore alternative choices in fiction, then the pressure might begin to build that would produce abnormal behavior-- but even in that case, such abnormal behavior would probably manifest in being irritable, acting rude and boorish, neglecting to bathe, deciding to dye one's hair purple or wear white shoes during the wrong season in a huge "FUCK YOU!" to society, or other such relatively harmless ways, almost all of the time.

Sometimes people make me feel pretty uncomfortable with their writing choices, even to the extent where I won't associate with the author(s) in question, but I haven't ever seen any fandom writing that made me think "Holy shit I have to report this person before she/he hurts somebody."
elke_tanzer From: elke_tanzer Date: June 1st, 2007 03:58 pm (UTC) (Link)
Seconded.

samfeasor From: samfeasor Date: June 1st, 2007 01:24 pm (UTC) (Link)
The way people respond to/consume the incest and underage sex fiction of communities like PP reminds me of the way people respond to/consume the latest style of horror movies. It fetishizes something that we all consider "wrong" (I use quotes because even when society makes a judgment call like that, there's still wiggle room) and makes it okay to get off on violence and morally ambiguous behavior.

I don't jump to the conclusion that people who watch movies like Hostel will actually tear people apart. Similarly, I don't jump to the conclusion that people who like reading about two brothers having sex will actually go have sex with their brother, or people who like reading about two children having sex (and I don't know at what age a child becomes an adult... I guess "I'll know it when I see it") are really going to go have sex with children. But there's a certain amount of underlying desire there that gives me pause, even if the writers or readers say they're not reading for any sexual reasons. They've found an acceptable way to display their socially immoral desire (sexual or otherwise). Who am I to tell them to stop expressing themselves just because I find their underlying desires to be problematic?

So I suppose that, no, I wouldn't report anyone. But at the same time I find the "holier than thou" attitude that a lot of fic writers (of all ilk) are adopting in the wake of "Strikethrough07" to be pretty off putting. But I've sort of alluded to that already on my own journal, so I don't want skew off on a tangent here.
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